Talk:Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas

Big Smoke

Are the big smoke memes notable enough to be in this article? Like in a section titled "In Pop culture" or something? NintendoTTTEfan2005 (talk) 00:09, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Are there any reliable sources (see WP:VG/RS that discuss those memes? soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 05:26, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

None that I have currently found. I probably ought to look really hard for them, cause they got to be out there somewhere. Cause I remember when those Big Smoke memes were all over the place in like 2017-2018. How do I remember those memes yet I don't really remember many others that were probably more popular, besides like fidget spinner memes and "We are number one" from Lazy Town? NintendoTTTEfan2005 (talk) 00:25, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Like are osgamers or sportskeeda reliable sources? NintendoTTTEfan2005 (talk) 07:07, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

No. You can find a list of reliable (and unreliable) sources at WP:VG/S. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 07:10, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Ok. But I am honestly surprised this stuff hadn't been mentioned long ago like 2017 or 2016 since Big Smoke was one of the biggest internet memes of that time. Or at least, as far as I am concerned. NintendoTTTEfan2005 (talk) 17:19, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 October 2023

Just add a link for San Francisco 150.195.171.3 (talk) 17:39, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 00:00, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

"All we had to do was follow the damn train, CJ!" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect All we had to do was follow the damn train, CJ! has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 November 3 § All we had to do was follow the damn train, CJ! until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 16:23, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Pimping and Burglary

We should include some unique GTA SA exclusive features like pimping and burglary, stuff like taxi, paramedic, etc aren't exclusive to SA but all 3D GTAs, not saying to include all side stuff, but the WP:Notable ones like that, (Burglary introduced in Home Invasion, rewards infinite stamina, Pimping introduced in Jizzy, at least the features unlocked during story missions), there are sufficient WP:RS for them and as a matter of fact stuff like taxi, paramedic which exists in all 3D GTAs can go, but Pimping and Burglary were prominent features and I linked WP:RS, but thats just my opinion, choice is yours, won't comment any further leaving a consensus, its upto you guys to vote and add, I end with a support. Dilbaggg (talk) 13:17, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Both are included, and I don't think they need any expansion. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 13:31, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Some generally high-level thoughts on the article at present

RetroCosmos asked me to take a look at the article with the eye of eventually getting it to FA. I thought I'd offer some general thoughts.

• General stuff:
  • This is probably obvious, but the prose is going to need a major workover for FA standards. I would recommend exercises like going through User:Tony1/How to improve your writing to tighten things up.
  • I think in terms of comprehensiveness, it doesn't feel like we're missing anything at a broad level.
• It is the seventh title in the Grand Theft Auto series and the first main entry since 2002's Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. Mentioning it as the first "main entry" (how do you define that) feels a bit inessential to mention up top, especially since it's all of 2 years later, not a huge gap.
• fast travel is available at airports I think for people who don't know what fast travel is a little more clarity would be useful here (it's basically teleportation not a quicker form of transit, etc.)
  • Same thing for auto-aim.
• Several stealth elements were introduced in the game The gameplay shifts tenses here.
• burglary, fire fighting, pimping, taxi cab, taxi cab isn't an activity, it's a thing.
• Balancing food and physical activity impacts CJ's appearance and physical attributes; eating and exercising maintains health. Does this have any impact on actual gameplay, or just appearances? It's not made clear.
• The end of the gameplay section gets a bit repetitive. Lots of similar "Players can/something can" constructions.
• Video game articles don't follow film standards of having the voice actor names in the plot section.
• Development:
  • Way too much "The team felt"-type repetition throughout.
  • San Andreas consists of three cities inspired by real locations: Los Santos (based on Los Angeles), San Fierro (San Francisco), and Las Venturas (Las Vegas) This is largely duplicative with the previous mention of the cities and can be shortened.
  • The exterior map is 36,000 square kilometres what does "exterior map" mean?
  • In-game locations were based on real areas, such as Los Santos by Compton, California this sounds like Los Santos is real?
  • Don't think the quote is really useful.
  • The team borrowed the "sense of physicality" from the gun gameplay in Manhunt (2003) and adapted it the open world formula of Grand Theft Auto; I don't know what that means. Also should probably make it clear Manhunt was Rockstar's own game.
• Controversies:
  • In general, we want to avoid controversy sections, and I'm not entirely sure we should have one here. The Hot Coffee thing is certainly notable to be covered, but the baseless suit by a random guy seems irrelevant (was it really such a big news of a lawsuit that it deserves a full paragraph?) What's left is the discussion of racial stereotypes in the game, which gets discussed briefly in the reception section, and I think might be better integrated with that discussion.
• Reception/Legacy:
  • There's sandwiching issues with the image in the reception section and the table.
  • Dan Houser felt the incorporation of three cities in San Andreas had limited the emulation of Los Angeles, making it more prevalent in Grand Theft Auto V unclear what this means.
• I've never seen a {{refideas}} table that just lists everything off Archive.org, but before FA you should be sure you've exhausted all quality reliable sources.

--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 21:03, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

In case anybody sees that last point and feels tempted to read through all 177 Archive.org documents: feel free, of course, but please note that I've already done so, and there's unlikely to be anything major remaining. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 06:05, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi David, thank you for your suggestions. Looks like Rhain already beat me to it, but I will have another look at the article, noting your points, and improve it best I can.

Good day—RetroCosmos ^talk 07:49, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Thebiguglyalien (talk · contribs) 17:39, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

I'll have a review posted within a week. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 17:39, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Rhain, I've posted the review below. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 00:18, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Well-written

General

• This is just a suggestion, but there's no dedicated section about themes, motifs, etc. If you think it would help with presentation, you could move "story and characters" along with the last paragraph of "critical reception" into their own dedicated themes section.
• The article is pretty heavy on semicolons.

Lead

• who returns home after his mother's murder and finds his old friends and family in disarray – This makes it sound like petty drama, not gang wars.
• The lead doesn't need to mention California and Nevada if it then gives the more specific cities in the next paragraph.
• It generated controversy when the discovery of the "Hot Coffee" minigame unlocked a previously hidden sexual scene. – "Previously hidden" could mean it was eventually intended to be discovered.

Gameplay

• The fictional state of San Andreas comprises three metropolitan cities – This is provided without context. It should be made clear that San Andreas is the open world and that these three cities are all explorable areas. It might also be worth mentioning the open road and undeveloped areas between the three cities.
• Safehouses can be purchased to save the game – Specify that these are scattered throughout the map
• Players may run, jump, swim, or use vehicles to navigate the world – This is strangely worded. I'm picturing players hopping around the game world like a kangaroo and swimming all the way from Los Santos to Las Venturas.
• Several stealth elements are introduced in the game. – This doesn't add anything without context. I'd say either elaborate or remove this. I'd lean toward removal since burglary and evading the police are both mentioned below.
• police helicopters and military swarm to lethally dispatch players – This implies that police don't use lethal force in the other wanted levels. Also, the police are the ones being dispatched, not the player.
• The game tracks respect among CJ's friends, which varies according to his actions and appearance, and acquired skills such as driving... – This makes it sound like acquired skills are just measures of respect instead of progression bars in their own right.

Plot

• to reunite the various GSF sets who had splintered – Is this supposed to be "sects"?

Development

• allowed them to refine their craft – This feels slightly WP:PEACOCK-ish.
• Some had disagreements with Rockstar president Sam Houser, causing them to step away from development. – What disagreements? About the work hours?

Technical and open world design

• the developer's relationship with Estevan Oriol, Mister Cartoon, and DJ Pooh assisted imitation of 1990s Los Angeles street culture – How? Just by virtue of knowing them?
• In-game locations were inspired by real areas, such as Los Santos by Compton, California, and a bridge in San Fierro by the Golden Gate Bridge – It's confusing to say that Los Santos is inspired by Compton and to say it's inspired by Los Angeles. The article should be consistent or reconcile these. This also has parallelism (grammar) issues in the way it compares a city to the bridge in a city.
• and the open countryside driving was inspired technically by Rockstar's Smuggler's Run (2002) – What does "technically" mean in this context?
• allowing them to be loaded as the player traverses the map instead of in one instance and interrupted by a loading screen when moving between islands like in Vice City – The wording here is a little clunky.
• Textures were created at the highest resolution – Highest of what?
• Remodelled lighting systems allowed different sets during day and night. – Sets of what?

Story and characters

• Some of this section, especially the first paragraph, feels like a list of unrelated bullet points. It needs a little reorganization so the sentences flow a little better. It's also divided up strangely: there's a lot of info about the inspirations, and there's a lot of info about CJ, but they're scattered throughout the section.
• San Andreas concluded a trilogy – On it's own, this makes it sound like the three games all follow a single story. Ideally, it should be made clear somewhere that the connections between them are limited to a few recurring characters and passing mentions.
• he found Ray Liotta's performance as Tommy Vercetti in Vice City "conflicting" – What does "conflicting" mean in this context?

Music

• The in-game radio features eleven radio stations with twenty DJs, and more than three times as many songs and in-universe advertisements as Grand Theft Auto III – A sentence explaining what these songs and advertisements are would be helpful. Right now it sounds like these are all original songs created for the game.

Release and promotion

• The timeline in this section is confusing. It goes from a delay being announced to the game being leaked to a special edition being release. This section might need some reorganizing, and it should explicitly say what day the game was released on.
• to reinstate its Mature 17+ rating – There's no context here. The reader shouldn't have to go later into the article to understand what they read higher up.
• featuring the documentary film Sunday Driver – What is this, and what's its relevance to GTA?

Critical response

• Most of this section is just a list of quotes and random opinions instead of a summary of the reception. WP:RECEPTION provides some tips on this. This Kotaku article is a good example of the sources you might look for (though a higher quality source would be better). It can be used to support that the RC plane mission had negative reception generally by players instead of just quoting one reviewer's personal opinion. There's probably something similar for the train mission and maybe a few other aspects of the game where there's a consensus on what people like or disliked about it.
• Some reviewers compared the story to Hollywood and similar popular culture – What does it mean to compare a story to a place?

Accolades

• No issues.

Sales

• and boosting overall industry revenue – This is redundant to when it says the game increased revenue along with Halo 2 a few sentences later.
• In the United Kingdom, it sold an estimated 677,000 copies... – There are a lot of statistics in this sentence, making it hard to follow. It might be worth breaking it up.

Controversy

• "Controversy" might not be the best heading for this section. Since it's just about Hot Coffee, it would be more precise to call it "Hot Coffee controversy" or "Hot Coffee minigame".
• curtailed planned nudity and sexual content to obtain a "Mature" rating from the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) – To someone who doesn't know much about video game ratings, they might be confused why removing sexual content makes it "mature". It should clarify that it would have been too explicit for the mature rating.
• and modder Patrick Wildenborg enabled the code after the Windows release – This makes it sound like he enabled it remotely for everyone's version of the game.
• "Hot Coffee" impacted the video game industry – This doesn't really say anything.

Legacy

• This section should be more focused on how the series was affected by San Andreas specifically. The info about seventh generation GTA games goes a little out of scope. If possible, it should explain what specific problems with San Andreas the changes were meant to address—the part of GTA V's setting does a good job of this.

Ports

• It's redundant to describe the Xbox, Windows, and mobile versions under both "release" and "ports".
• A remastered version of The Trilogy subtitled The Definitive Edition, including Vice City – Didn't the Trilogy already include Vice City?

Verifiable with no original research

The sourcing here isn't very strong, being mostly dependent on video game news websites and contemporary sources instead of analytic/academic coverage, but it's good enough for GA. If this were to go to FA, I'd expect more use of books and journal articles.

Source checks:

• [6] GamesRadar – The source doesn't say co-op is open roam, it only says anything about minigames and certain missions.
• [17] Dumham (2004) – Good.
• [31] Sulic (2004) – Good.
• [60] Penney (2020) – Thumbs up.
• [79] Boyer, Hsu & Davison (2004) – Good.
• [88] Parish (2004) – Good.
• [105] Hutchinson (2017) – Good.
• [138] Krotosk (2005) – Good.
• [173] Neumeister (2005) – Good.
• [198] Snow (2008) – This says it "will" be launched on Xbox Originals. Using this source, we don't know whether it ended up happening.

Broad in its coverage

• Not much coverage of the vehicular aspects of the game. It's touched on a few times, but the article doesn't convey how central to the game it is or how much variety there is in vehicle use.

Neutral

The article is neutral in tone. No one aspect is given undue weight.

Stable

No recent disputes

Illustrated

• File:GTA San Andreas mural, Melbourne.jpg is currently nominated for deletion on Wikimedia Commons
• File:Gta-sa-screen1.jpg should be filled out with a more thorough non-free use rationale, preferably with a template.
• File:Gta-sa-screen2.jpg same as above.

@Thebiguglyalien: Thanks for the review. I've gone through and addressed most of your concerns. To clarify, the "Critical response" section's paragraphs are grouped by thematic element and generally summarise the reception overall. Please let me know if you have other questions or concerns. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 03:38, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 12:10, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that an early version of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas was leaked by hackers before release? Source: IGN
  • ALT1: ... that some developers worked for 17 hours per day during the creation of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas? Source: Kushner 2012, p. 138
  • ALT2: ... that Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas's map is about four to six times larger than Grand Theft Auto III and Vice City's? Source: McNamara 2004, p. 44
  • ALT3: ... that Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas was inspired by the Rampart scandal, 1990s crack epidemic, and 1992 Los Angeles riots? Source: Gamepressure, The Guardian
  • ALT4: ... that the developers of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas walked out of the Game Developers Choice Awards after winning nothing? Source: The Guardian
  • ALT5: ... that the release of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas and Halo 2 in 2004 led the video game industry to an 11% annual revenue increase instead of a 21% decrease? Source: GameSpot
  • ALT6: ... that Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas had an estimated budget of under US$10 million? Source: The Wall Street Journal
  • Reviewed: Pokémon Crystal and Paimon (Genshin Impact)
  • Comment: Lots of options here—and I have even more alternatives if none of these are too interesting.

Improved to Good Article status by Rhain (talk). Self-nominated at 23:33, 11 March 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Review incoming. Seddon ^talk 10:08, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Recent GA status confirmed, hooks all seem fine (neutral, interesting, not just in-universe). No other issues found - this seems GTG. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:14, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Redirects for discussion

Collapsed notifications

The redirect Blastin Fools Records has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 September 11 § Blastin Fools Records until a consensus is reached. 1234qwer1234qwer4 21:08, 11 September 2024 (UTC) The redirect Area 69 has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 September 11 § Area 69 until a consensus is reached. 1234qwer1234qwer4 22:40, 11 September 2024 (UTC) The redirect Brown Streak Railroad has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 September 11 § Brown Streak Railroad until a consensus is reached. 1234qwer1234qwer4 22:42, 11 September 2024 (UTC) The redirect List of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas characters has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 September 12 § List of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas characters until a consensus is reached. 1234qwer1234qwer4 01:03, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Several redirects have been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether their use and function meet the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on these redirects until a consensus is reached:

• Blastin Fools Records – discussion here
• Muholland Intersection – discussion here
• TransFender – discussion here
• Area 69 – discussion here
• Brown Streak Railroad – discussion here
• Whetstone County, San Andreas, Whetstone (Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas), and Whetstone County – discussion here
• Tierra Robada and Tierra Robada County – discussion here
• Blueberry (Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas) – discussion here
• Hashburry – discussion here
• Juniper Hollow – discussion here
• Easter Basin – discussion here
• Palomino Creek and Palomino Creek, San Andreas – discussion here
• Angel Pine – discussion here
• Mt. Chiliad and Mount Chillad – discussion here
• Las Payasadas – discussion here
• Sherman Dam – discussion here
• T Bone Mendez and T-Bone Mendez – discussion here
• Pirates pants casino – discussion here
• Caligula's Casino – discussion here
• Melvin "Big Smoke" Harris, Melvin Harris (character), and Melvin Harris (Grand Theft Auto) – discussion here
• Didier Sachs – discussion here
• Johnny Sindacco – discussion here
• Lance Wilson and Lance "Ryder" Wilson – discussion here
• B-Dup – discussion here
• Las Venturas Airport – discussion here
• Flint County, San Andreas – discussion here
• Red County, San Andreas – discussion here
• Zero (Grand Theft Auto) – discussion here
• Four Dragons Casino – discussion here
• Jimmy Hernandez – discussion here
• Market Station – discussion here
• Yellow Bell Station – discussion here
• Cluckin' bell – discussion here
• Vinewood – discussion here
• Ran Fa Li – discussion here
• Jizzy B. – discussion here
• List of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas characters and List of characters in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas – discussion here
• Back O' Beyond – discussion here
• Santa Maria Beach – discussion here
• Cranberry Station – discussion here

– Rhain ☔ (he/him) 23:00, 11 September 2024 (UTC) (updated ☔)